Seriously - have you actually used the HTC touch? Beyond the homescreen it's just standard-bog WinCE and as we all know, that's just painful to use. 3/5 as an iPhone killer? Give me a break.

I'd love to try the Viewty though.

It doesn't have the form factor of the iPhone - it's quite a bit thicker, if only slightly heavier - but for combining a mobile phone with a portable web browser, can I bring people's attention to the Toshiba Portege G900?

I've played with mine beside an iPhone (surfing via 802.11b), and, while not as fast or as slick (thanks, presumably, to Windows Mobile 6), the screen and integrated keyboard (and 3G, and Bluetooth) ensured that I don't have iPhone envy. Reading a web page at full size on the 800x480 screen (same as the Nokia internet tablets, but only 3") is preferable to the iPhone's poke-pinch-and-slide interface, and you don't get smears all over the screen.

It's had some stability problems (largely fixed by the community with some registry pokes, depending on what you're doing with it), it's a bit quiet, and it's by no means as responsive as the iPhone - but for surfing in the field I'm happy with my solution. It's miles ahead of the P910i I had before, or any QVGA display.

I've not really used its media player, so I can't vouch for the iPod abilities (I'd rather save my phone batteries for phone calls anyway), but for the most-pushed iPhone feature, the "mobile internet", it's a real competitor for the iPhone, even if it doesn't look like one. Maybe I'm enough of a geek to consider the fashion status of the iPhone to be irrelevant; YMMV.

(I have no connection with Toshiba, and no vested interest other than getting enough people to buy G900s to persuade Toshiba to give better customer service, btw.)

Instead of 'iPhones out of 5', you should cut out the head of the guy in the top right corner of http://regmedia.co.uk/2007/11/09/iphone_queue.jpg - the one looking disgustedly at the Apple fanboys - and use that instead. "This phone gets 4 intelligent consumers out of 5".

Forget the Touch, the TyTN II beats the JesusPhone hands down.

Or were you only going on models that either try to emulate it's looks or it's "special" touch interface?

as long as they don't bear the apple logo they will never be iphone killers...

the reason : fanboi's only want overpriced hardware if it has the apple brand.

samsing , lg or htc are hardly 'fashion' names...

Who in fact has Iphone killed, in order to deserve being killed too? they got 1.4 million units sold (don't get me even started on symbian units sold); and they PLAN to sell another 10 million units the WHOLE next year.

So i ask you again, who is iphone?

Because a smartphone ain't (apps anybody?), and if it is a normal phone then they suck big time at units sold (200 million Nokia 1100 cellphones have been sold since its launch in late 2003 - compared to 110 million IPODS sold).

So is Iphone a NOkia 1100 killer? would be a better question.

I believe that while the iPhone is a very nice piece of hardware, it's a bit behind in terms of network tech for the European market.

People in the US often forget that other countries have things like telephones, toilets and clean water. But most of all they mostly haven't caught on that their cellphone tech is years behind the rest of the world.

As long as they're happy with their stuff that's fine, but Europeans expect certain minimums with any phone and the iPhone fails on one or two the more important connectivity and network features.

Actually most of these "killers" aren't any better, smart phones and regular mobiles are far more likely to put the iPhone into an early grave.

The one thing that may save it, however, is the brand. iPods are relatively basic devices, but do what they do incredibly well. There are many equally impressive media players on the market, but they'll never gain the acceptance of the iPod - and that mostly falls down to branding.

So if iPod owners are looking for a cellphone that combines their favourite media player with making phone calls, then Apple will be fine.

I just don't expect the kind of success they're getting in the US tho, because they can't connect to some of the better networks .. yet.

It seems blindingly obvious to me that the only sane format for a smartphone is the flip-layout. This provides a huge screen, *and* a huge keyboard.

Why is nobody doing this?

Sorry, absolutely zero interest in an iPhone. And yes, before you ask, I have seen and played with one. I'd rather have a Blackberry Pearl, thanks, as it's a phone for grown up consumers rather than fashion victims. :P

You are making a very big claim that doesn't really stand up.

Yes the Nokia 1100 may well have sold a gazillion units - World wide on on probably several hundred different networks.

The iphone has had all its sales in 1 territory on 1 network.

There's a very subtle difference.

Very true Ivan,

my point however was, that there is no Iphone to kill, and there is no justification for the hype the media makes. See, the Ipod is has sold 110 millions compared to 1100s , 200 million yet nobody is talking about 1100 killer like the ipod killer. That is my point. Fanbois just like to hype, just like the media.

@Richard: The Sony Ericsson P910i (I have one) has a qwerty keyboard on the back of a flip-down numeric keyboard, which normally half-covers the screen. The numeric keyboard is there on the P800 and P900 as well (but no qwerty); the P990 has the qwerty keyboard below the screen on the main device. The problem with qwerty on a flip is that, in the P910i's case, the phone is really top-heavy, because the flip is necessarily a minor component (it can be completely removed, and one can rely on the touch screen). For a full clamshell smart phone, see any of the Nokia Communicator series. In order for the keyboard to be a reasonable size, the clamshell is huge, and the main screen is landscape format (but not touch screen).

The smart phones with a touch screen usually want the touch screen to be available without having to open anything - the keyboard is optional, and you use the touch screen for normal phone operations. Hence several Windows Mobile devices (from HTC, the aforementioned G900, et al.) have the touch screen facing out, and a full size keyboard which slides from under it; you don't have to have the keyboard if you want to use the phone one handed. A vertical clamshell, which would still allow the phone to be used one handed, would necessarily have less space for the keyboard. Having a touch screen on the upper half of the clamshell would also make it a bit unstable (barring a clever arrangement like the Psion 5's).

The problem with an exposed touch screen, of course, is that the phone really needs to sit in a case. At least, it does if you have half as much junk in your pockets as I do - I'd have an iPhone in a case as well, no matter how solid the screen is supposed to be. I'd feel less bad about risking a clamshell or slider (although my 8850 is in a case too).

But which one does Paris own?

Anyhow, I vote for my w900i, a real brick of a phone, you know its in your pocket, you always look happy to meet people, and it works without fail.

(except if you ever unlock it and change sim, then it will become a flasher and never work again)

For me the network lockin, cost and lack of 3G all kill the iPhone - Might be good for the elderly, who have difficulty with mini joysticks.

Could people please grow up and stop sounding like a bunch of twats, we are only talking about bits of niche hardware.

@George

Why would anyone compare a smartphone and "ultrabasic" in terms of sales? One is a voice communication device supposed to sell in the 100 millions and the other is a high-priced toy that can also make voice calls.

@Matt Bryant

I looked at the BB Pearl but the sales people warned me off it so I got the Curve instead (same price). Since talking to actual Pearl owners, the majority appear to wish they had bought the Curve too.

To compare the iPhone and Curve would be a good one to make, if they weren't designed for different market segments. One is a great media player with a mediocre phone while the other is a great email device with a half decent phone. They seem to have a few things in common though. Neither can compete on the other's strength, both are EDGE and both have crap cameras (from my experience anyway).

The Iphone is a marvel, the quality of the device is second to none. The display is large. The Operating System is the Best enviroment for any phone. Silly whinging about it not having 3G, is nonsense , or issues with it being locked down. Too many people abuse devices for there own benefit, if dont want to use O2 then you wont get an Iphone simple. Itunes pc/mac connectivity is easy to use unlike alot mp3 are quite the opposite. The iphone is designed to do on what it says on the can.

Its guarante any one who get a demo of an Iphone will buy it. Its the phone other manufacturers will have to follow....