I think we can all see exactly what happened here... the very reason Microsoft has been sued by several major governments:

<apricot> Look world! We got a cute laptop!

<microsoft> Very nice. Whats it run?

<apricot> Linux or Windows XP.

<microsoft> Uh...

<apricot> The Linux variant being cheaper, naturally.

<microsoft> Well... we can do Windows XP at that price...

<apricot> Cool!

<microsoft> ... as long as you promise not to sell the Linux one.

<apricot> uh well uh thats.. um er.. *sigh* it's a deal.

<microsoft> nice.

<-- insert lawsuit here -->

-- Richard

obviously!

What?

The only thing complicated I have (so far) found with hardware on Ubuntu is that I've had to do nothing. I kept waiting for it to ask for drivers and then reboot 90 times before blue-screening; but nope.

Plug in hardware. Watch Ubuntu go "Oh, hello, what's this?" and then have it simply start working.

My gast was absolutely flabbered, I can tell you.

Pity, I was going to buy one for Christmas for myself and was considering a couple for work as test machines.

It would have fitted brilliantly in my setup (I use AES based openvpn which is hardware accelerated on this CPU). However, I am not paying a Windows Tax on this out of principle (never had, never will).

So it can go to the most appropriate place for a fruit infected with rot - the compost heap.

I did consider getting one.. but now it's XP only I don't think I'll bother.

Way to focus on the thing people hardly ever do.

When you consider I just bought a HP mini-note with the same Via 1.2Ghz CPU, WXVGA screen, 1Gb RAM with Vista Business and a 160Gb HDD for £339, the Apricot doesn't look quite as good value?

Oh, are Apricot still in business? I thought they went the traditional way (ie bust) of British PC makers yonks ago...

Rather than offer one of the few OS's that has no known virii for it, they would like to make their customer's lives better by giving them the opportunity to have the same virus problems they are used to....

Given that one of the big sells of Dual Core chips is that one can be dedicated to anti-virus activity, how long before these things slow to a halt with all the rubbish the Web will give to this book.

Linux because i'm worth it.

"Apricot believes that this will be a more attractive product offering for their target customers, because as soon as it is switched on, it is ready for use."

No one need say anything. That quote encompasses everything anyone needs to know about the blinkered idiocy that the adoption of Linux faces.

If my memory serves me right, these guys used to be at the cutting edge in the mid-80s. I was only 10, so might be wrong. Still, Linux doesn't seem to much for all the other SCCs out there.

Its no big deal. dont buy em. dont recomend em and smear there name as attention grabbing (we do linux) MS arse limpits (we dont do linux). and next time they release something ask embarrasing questions about their catholic* products.

*builds up the excitment then withdraws..

Well my experience of Ubuntu was simply that it took months of effort to try and get it to work with all my laptop's hardware. You can't expect the consumer to dash off to linux forums, be shouted down for being a "noob" asking questions, and then have to read up on the in depth detail of linux to actually understand the instructions about how to install the (right) drivers (which may involve stealing some Windows drivers off an XP install when it comes to things like WiFi), and then to top it off may even find they have to recompile the kernel!!

Whilst I love linux on a server with standard basic hardware, my experience on the desktop with various flavours of linux has been less than pleasant. I can therefore understand how Apricot could reach this conclusion.

Versus:

"Apricot believes that this will be a more attractive product offering for their target customers, because as soon as it is switched on, it is ready for use."

Either the customer has to install their OS, and therefore want the easier one to install, or they don't and it's ready out of the box.

You can't have two plus points being that you don't need to configure it to use it and that the configuration required before use is really easy.

No wonder Apricot is no big success - they even fail at this most basic step, of including the better-performing and fewer-problem causing operating system from their list.

Linux is not more complicated - it is only complicated to people that do not give it the time and attention that they had given Windows.

Microsoft certainly know how to win friends and influence people and in consequence have had a very rough ride with the somewhat premature release of the imperfect Vista, which was also not properly supported by the available hardware.

What a shame that they coninue to act the bully boy rather than just compete. As more people learn this, they will seek alternatives. That is human nature.

Nevertheless, SuSe might provide an unfamiliar user with difficulty in configuring wireless connections unless a simplified tool has been included. On the other hand Ubuntu would just run, as already stated above.

The comment about installation is enirely rediculous, Ubuntu and most Linux install easily and quickly and require reinstallation less frequently. Updates and upgrades are very easily achieved and generally do not require a reboot unless there is a change to the kernel. Similarly installing additional software is a breeze and usually free. In any case, there is, presumably, no initial requirement to install either of the systems as they will already be pre-installed.

Time for a class action?

I can understand you having problems with an 'old' laptop you've put ubuntu onto, as I'm going through the same process myself just now. But I figure it'll be worth the effort to be free of 'Billshit 'in the end.

However, any half decent manufacturer would be doing all the things you list, and making sure the kit works 'out of the box' before letting it go out of the door, so maybe it's them (Apricot) who are the 'technotards', or just plain lazy.

s/Apricot/Cheap rebadging co. what bought the name/

You only need to look around the website (it won't take you long to find a bunch of broken links) to realise just how cheap they are.

Teh first thing I did with my Eee was to remove Linux and put XP on it, this would just save me that job.

"Apricot has made this decision to ensure customers have a smooth installation of their operating system"

Are you planning to sell the computers to your customers without an operating system installed ? Or, can't you provide a Linux restore disk like the Windows one ? And if you can't manage that why should anyone buy a computer from you ?

"The Linux version proved too complicated with initial testers, who would opt to purchase and install XP any way"

Translation: Our "initial testers" were desktop Windows XP users who want XP on their desktops, their notebooks, their netbooks, and wont buy an iPhone because it doesn't run XP and they probably don't have any real use for a netbook anyway. Also, they spat the dummy when they couldn't find the Internet Explorer icon thingy.

What you're telling us is that you don't want to do the work necessary to bring a real quality product to market. And that you've got your target market wrong.

"Apricot believes that this will be a more attractive product offering for their target customers, because as soon as it is switched on, it is ready for use."

If its not "ready for use" when the customer turns it on, thats not the fault of any GNU/Linux distribution, thats your fault.

So basically Apricot, what you're telling us is that you're not nearly as motivated as Asus, or Acer, or Dell, and you therefore don't deserve that piece of market share that others are putting a lot more work into capturing than you are.

I'll get my coat...

@Dabooka: Apricot were in the business of X86-based small servers and some of their boxes had interesting security features like a powered door on the front of the box restricting access to the floppy/CD drives.

They made the mistake of whole-heartedly adopting the Mirco Channel Architecture that IBM put forward as the next development in PCs, as seen in the PS/2*. IBM did this because they were trying to get back their monopolistic position that they lost wrt PC hardware design. All the other PC makers avoided it like the proverbial plague and went with a different design EISA until PCI came along.

I liked the Apricot stuff, they thought about the field engineers and had some nice designs that didn't chop your fingers to bits as soon as you took the case off. I used an Apricot keyboard for ages after they went bust because it was bomb-proof and quiet.

*That's an IBM PS/2, nothing to do with playstation, you noobs. That's where the name "PS/2 connector" came from before USB keyboards were invented.

These people need to get real! I've had virtually no problems with Linux - any distro - whilst Microsoft eats the RAM from my notebook. I've got a good-spec notebook, and the only problems have been that the notebook was made for Vista, ergo low-quality graphics card.

They need a slap.

I was interested in this for a SCC, looks like I will get an eee now.

For those who just want basic services such as web/internet/word processing, Linux has a lot going for it. I acquired an Aspire One yesterday, Linux-flavoured, and it has a nice, simple interface on it, easy for the non-techie to use. Of course, as a techie I find it too restrictive, but that's easy to fix, although I did break it for a while and had to exercise some creativity to get it to boot. Wireless was simple, no harder than the equivalent XP stuff.

So Apricot, Linux does not have to be hard if you put a bit of work up-front to make it easier. Just leave a way for those who do have knowledge to get under the covers and tinker.

Given the utter lack of ability of pretty much all PC sales staff, it wouldn't surprise me if the real reason was that the sales people would focus on selling the easy stuff they understood: such as windows, rather than have to learn how to navigate the the menus, functions and methods that linux (or a Mac, for that matter) would require. Meaning that the sales would suffer, simply because the sales people would never demo the unit to prospective customers.

Of course the really hard part of selling a Linux lappy to "the man in the street" is coming up with a convincing response to the question "why can't I just have XP?"

"as soon as it is switched on, it is ready for use"

What! With Windows? Shome mishtake, surely...

Who are Apricot now, anyway? Still rubbish at marketing, apparently.

I jumped into this comments thread hoping that the usual anti-MS crap would be avoided this time ... now I realise how silly I was, as I get just that - ill-thought-through anti-MS crap from nearly all of the posters above.

Remember that Apricot is trying to produce a mass-market product, i.e. a market that is wider than just a bunch of IT geeks and fanatics. If you gave a Linux one to my parents, for example, they would not have a clue how to use it. It's a simple fact that people find Win XP much, much easier to use and there you go, that's why Apricot went for it. Good on them for braving the wrath of the vocal minority (most of which appear to have posted in this comments section already) for dropping a product that would have cost them dear in support costs.

Blame everything except Linux itself.

MS CUT THEM A DEAL! THEY'RE ALL TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND!

Or maybe the people in their focus groups didn't like linux. Maybe they didn't like having to learn to use a whole new OS, and a whole new suite of office apps, and a new web browser, and a new IM client and so on and so forth.

For a non-technical person familiar with Windows, little things in Linux are confusing as hell. Changes in terminology, Verbose error messages, Everything being in a different place. Stuff like that totally throws someone who isn't sure of what they're doing. And of course there isn't anyone they can ASK, nobody they know will be using it, and the responses in this thread are a pretty good representation of what you get for asking "Stupid" questions on a support board.

Besides, what will you all do when using Linux isn't an act of rebellion anymore? Create your own OS? Switch back to windows to stick it to all those trendy morons using linux?

@ Dabooka and gizmo32 they actually did nice servers almost to the end. We were I believe, first to market with a whole raft of features and tech including multi processors and hotswap SCSI backplanes.

As gizmo32 points out, some manufacturers cases left you dripping blood after opening the PC for upgrade/maintenance. The apricot cases were by contrast a joy to work on. Robust too, one of the FT4200 servers having been struck by a 4x4 in a ram raid on a dealers premises remaining operational, needing only a panel or two replacing by all accounts. Whilst the FT4200's were wheeled, I wouldn't fancy other manufacturers chances in such an impromptu crash test.

There is no connection to the old Apricot or indeed Mitsubishi Electric PC Division (Apricot Computers), it's simply someone trading under the name. The guy running this operation did something similar with Acorn, but had to walk away when it became apparent that there was a dispute over ownership.

As far as Linux support goes, I'm sure that everyone who must have linux will simply install it themselves. Last I heard, the staff of the company offering this product was rather few (extremely), I'm sure this is a factor.

Or are they betting on MS allowing XP installs beyond then?

It was probably more to do with the complication of having to support TWO rather than one OS.

After reading the comments above, I have been somewhat amused by the anti-Microsoft remarks about Linux superiority. Linux has a place..... Just not as a desktop OS. Now, the reason this is its because MS and Apple have way better understanding of user desktop interface. They keep the design simple and intuitively. How many people( non-computer nerds) need to see the CPU usage level ? How many need to see multiple-desktop, 20 task-bar icon, and a crappy brown background(ubuntu) - like many Linux distros have. Its really not about how easy its to install, important although not crucial ; but its about the user experience afterwards. Microsoft and Apple spend millions of dollars researching for better user interface and then comes along an OS that copies most of that (uh oh here comes the flames). The same can be said about the iPhone. These so called "iPhone killers" out there, while an improvement in features, they offer poor user interface. They put too much stuff for the user too see all at once and then wonder why it doesn't sell as well apple. As a software engineer undergrad, I have a hard time understanding what would motivate someone to write free code. Well, if you read this far your probably bored like me or passionate about the subject. :)

Try putting XP or vista on an old laptop.

Linux you have to search really hard, but it will go on. you may miss anything other than SVGA, but unlike MS's SVGA it does go to 1920x1280x24bit. Trackpad may not work and sound may not work. But the machine will work and plug a mouse in and you're sorted for a cheap lugbook. XP? It Linux had those problems with the laptop XP likely won't fare any better except be stuck ad 256 colours at 800x600.

Really, MS, work out what is possible under SVGA rather than go with what you always did. Take a risk.

Reason for returns from disappointed punters: "I want Windows blah-blah with Microsoft Windows blah-blah-blah, and I must have Extortio Corporation's Anti-Virus blah-blah installed with full update-and-other-buzzwords-I-don't-understand capability. Now where are my Nikes? I'm off to Starbucks!"

TimM: "Well my experience of Ubuntu was simply that it took months of effort to try and get it to work with all my laptop's hardware."

The idea with this is that the OS is already installed: Apricot have to do the work of making the hardware function correctly, which should mostly involve specifying half-reasonable components up front, instead of just putting their logo on the units from some random consignment after it arrives from the Far East.

I'm an ex-Apricot engineer from the 80s/90s and I despair of these blokes from Nottingham who've acquired the Apricot name. Mind you, the old Apricot's management sometimes opened their legs for major industry players, so maybe I shouldn't be too harsh on the new people.

My 4-year old laptop is dual boot Ubuntu/XP. Ubuntu took under an hour to install, XP most of a day. My girlfriend's 8-year old laptop also runs Ubuntu perfectly and surprisingly fast, even the PCMCIA wireless card plays ball. MS stuff is just so 20th century.

I hope you have a valid copy windows.

Then again, MS dont care if pirate or not (until they eliminate ALL competition)

Download a mp3 illegally, fine $20,000 per mp3?

Download windows illegally - a pat on the back from Gates and Balmer.

You're absolutely right about MCA being a foolish diversion for Apricot. I worked on those products and they were an engineering nightmare plus they burned up design bandwidth that could have made so much more money on other projects.

As for those motorised doors, well I designed them, and though they worked fairly well, I still think it was a really wanky concept :-)

...and when you ask how to do something with Ubuntu on a forum, instead of helpful answers, you get a string of abuse. I spent most of a day trying to get a friend's Eee to connect to WiFi using WPA-PSK [TKIP], I searched the web and all I got was a load of incomprehensible gibberish. I asked on a couple of forums and got the response that I was too stupid to use Ubuntu. I'm not that stupid because I use computers that work!

You've got it spot on. This has nothing to do with the Apricot of old and is simply a pair trying to cash in on an old brand. A quick googling reveals they tried to do the same with Acorn a couple of years back:

http://www.drobe.co.uk/riscos/artifact1594.html

I predict they'll be equally as successful this time!

My (sony Viao owning) Grandchildren picked up my new EEE701 and said "whizzy"

will you give us one each for christmas (answer - No! buy your own)

They played with all the bits an bobs and never even realised that it was NOT

a Windows machine. (Linux ? What's that? Something else from Acorn ??? !)

Worked fine for me straight out of the box. The underlying system seems far more

complicated than on my faithful RISC OS machine, but then, I' m biased ;)

I got an Acer One with Linpus a few weeks ago and have to say that it's splendid and now does exactly what I want it for.

However for the basic tasks that I suspect most new users would undertake when acquiring a new machine such as setting up a printer, being able to access other computers on a network and even installing a new media player (VLC) you have to head to the command line. - as a Linux Noob, this took me hours and hours.

It's doable and there are helpful Linux forums out there (honest - the AspireOneUser forum is pretty good), but I can't see me getting one for my mother or the kids (unless I was going to do all the setup work for them I suppose).

XP just works and does these simple tasks with a point and a click - no Sudo Yum cryptics involved.

I assume this is why Apricot has dropped the Linux edition, not because of the operating system installation, but the user setup side of it.

Of course.

The User Interface is up to the Window Manager.

And they understand User Interface very well.

MS have MDI and that really IS a pain in the arse to get to grips with. Unless you're working on one app at a time. And even then, if it's a busy interface (Photoshop/Maya/AutoCAD [heck, Office 2007 and its ribbon!) you really DO want some of that crud OUT of the main program window and then you really DO want multiple desktops.

Just because you've been able to put up with a single desktop, doesn't mean that's all you need. Else WindowBlinds would not have been such a popular addition to the Win9x line.

Well Linux being too complicate IS bullshit.

So there has to be a reason for this bullshit else insanity is the only option left. And a company with insane employees isn't worth buying from. So we're giving them the best interpretation.

After all, it's better if they are doing this for money rather than because their brains have left for a holiday.

...free-thinking prospective netbook purchasers strike Apricot from the list of potential suppliers. Wazzocks. Bet it would work fine with Xubuntu. Apricot will just sink back into the soup because they have no USP.

I have an Asus EeePC. It has a simple interface - no 20 icons, no powerbar.

It runs Linux.

I have assorted other computers, some supplied by an organisation that insists on using Windows.

The Linux ones are ready to use when they are switched on for the first time after the OS is installed.

The Windows ones are not. They demand serial numbers.

Who was the genius, by the way, who decided to put the serial numbers on labels on the underside?

Why not tell the truth and admit that you've never used a modern Linux distro. Because if you had you would realise how daft your comment comes across as.

Also why say that Linux doesn't have a role to play as a desktop OS when so many of us use it for this purpose every day?

What do you think the purpose of the Gnome and KDE projects are?

Go educate yourself.

"Apricot is trying to produce a mass-market product"

You mean, like the EeePC, which was Linux only (until MS recovered from the shock)?

"However for the basic tasks that I suspect most new users would undertake when acquiring a new machine such as setting up a printer, being able to access other computers on a network and even installing a new media player (VLC) you have to head to the command line. - as a Linux Noob, this took me hours and hours."

That's because most of the netbooks (including the Eee and the Aspire One) run dumbed-down versions of Linux - fine if you want to use what's supplied out the box, but a pain to get anything else working on. Decent Linux distributions, like Ubuntu, have more user-friendly ways of doing all these things.

One of my daughter's friend's mother is a nightmare with her laptops (XP and Vista installed). Some years ago I installed Linux on an older desktop for her as a temporary measure. This is still going strong and said mother has had no problem using it, unlike the aforementioned laptops, and I have not been required to maintain it at all - not even once.

Ergo, it does not take a geek or fanboy, to use Linux.

They really said it was too complicated? Yes, setting up most Linux systems from scratch is perhaps too complicated for most users. However, I thought the whole idea behind purchasing something that it preinstalled is that, well, it's fucking preinstalled and therefore I wouldn't need to do it.

Sounds like a piss poor excuse for "Microsoft gave us a better deal if we didn't sell Linux", or some other real reason for them making that decision.

That's Apricot off my purchase list then.

seem to expect so much from a netbook.

They're designed to be (or at least I thought this was the principle) small, light, highly portable, low power (both electrically and processor/ram/storage wise) for 'on the go' use for a bit of web browsing, e-mail, maybe VoiP and basic (and I do mean basic) office related tasks like the odd bit of word processing or spreadsheet work that just *has* to be done, no matter where you are. Sure, they should be able to connect to a network or router (wired/wireless/mobile whatever) and to a printer but if you feel you need anything beyond that, then IMHO you should really be looking for a 'proper' laptop.

As for Linux, of any variety.

Change is sometimes hard to achieve, especially if you're used to the 'convenience' of Windows. Patience and a little effort will be rewarded in the long run by breaking your 'dependency' on Windows and windows based products. And by ultimately giving you a better understanding of what's going on inside the 'magic box'.

Messed it up trying to get Rosetta Stone running. No problem to install a Linux Distro from a thumbdrive, but how does one install Windows XP home without a DVD drive and a floppy for drivers?

Do I sense some persuasion from MS along the old "naked pc" lines?

"Everybody uses Windows and if you're selling Linux machines they're just going to get reinstalled with our OS so you're helping these people steal from us. Stop it now or we'll not be so kind when it comes to negotiationg your rates for future products."

or was it the simple old, take the CEO out to very expensive, champagne-fuelled lunches and tell him loads of Linux horror stories, how you're worried he's damaging his brand by selling machines customers are going to have trouble with and so on?

[cut to interior shot of Apricot HQ]

Suit 1: Oh noes! What are we going to do? After announcing that we're not going to support Linux there are people - on the Register, no less - saying they won't buy one.

Suit 2: Shit, you're right. That must be - ooh, at least three sales lost and we've only halved our support matrix. Best I cancel that yacht order, and let the foreman know that there's gonna be layoffs...

Both: Ha ha ha...

(man from Mars 'cos we don't have an "I'd like some of what they're smoking" icon)

"I got an Acer One with Linpus a few weeks ago and [...] It's doable and there are helpful Linux forums out there (honest - the AspireOneUser forum is pretty good), but I can't see me getting one for my mother or the kids (unless I was going to do all the setup work for them I suppose). XP just works and does these simple tasks with a point and a click - no Sudo Yum cryptics involved."

I bought one around the same time and spent a week or so with Linpus but had much the same experience as you. I then plonked Kubuntu Intrepid Ibex (then, as now, a "dodgy beta") and basically everything just started working how I wanted. It's substantially better than the OS shipped by the hardware vendor, and enjoys the online support from a large *buntu community rather than the (face it, tiny) AspireOneUser forum.

Hardware vendors seem to have got it into their head that "offering Linux" means "offering a customised rebadge of an ancient distro". Try as I might, I can't figure out where or why they might have got this idea from. It's utter bollocks.

How would it be if notebook manufacturers routinely plonked an OEM-ed hack of Windows 2000 on their machines, rather than a vanilla XP? We'd reckon they were bonkers, no?

"If you gave a Linux one to my parents, for example, they would not have a clue how to use it. It's a simple fact that people find Win XP much, much easier to use"

---

Beg to differ... for the beginner, the difference between firing up the web browser/mail reader/Office on Ubuntu and XP is that Ubuntu (which uses GNOME windows manager) keeps the taskbar with icons on the upper edge of your screen. And Firefox uses "Bookmarks" instead of "Favorites". That's about it.

Unless your parents like to do something more with their computers than surfing/emailing/using Office. In which case comparison of XP and Ubuntu goes from comparing Granny Smiths to Jonagolds to apples and oranges. :-)

Even the default themes on both of those systems are nothing to write home about. I had to install TuneUp utilities to get a decent looking XP, and... well, nothing to install on Ubuntu, it can be easily modified without additional software. :-)

GNOME can still learn a thing or two about ergonomics, though, either from Microsoft or from Apple.

.

.

.

Errr... El Reg, can we have our old penguin icon back?

lol at how many people are posting "they have just lost a customer". No they didn't - you had never heard of this product before this article. And if you cannot afford £50 for aOS license, what makes you think you could afford this thing anyway ?

I agree with the view that linux makes an excellent server OS, but is not worth the hassle for a home user / non IT pro. People on here are blaming everything except for linux itself !

It's like firefox - it was great when it wasn't even v1.0 and no one had heard of it, but now it's become this fucking social movement among people with a IQ lower than a peanut, I can't be bothered with it. It's just disappointing, and nowhere near as fast as the early builds were either !

"Linux (...) is not worth the hassle for a home user / non IT pro"

---

Ah, but what hassle? As a home user/non IT pro (an accountant, actually), I find Ubuntu easier to install/maintain than XP.

The biggest hassle I had was when I had to manually configure bootloader to put XP as default at startup (quite a trivial task, once you know how :-))... a task that Ubuntu GUIed a year ago. OK, I also had to find out that Ubuntu doesn't save my docs in C:\Documents and Settings\Svantevid\My Documents but in /home/Svantevid.

Now, if you want to point out Ubuntu shortcomings (can't say about the rest of Linuxes, I'm an IT amateur), it should automatically put a "My Documents" shortcut on desktop and GNOME should fix the hard-to-catch window border, as resizing windows can be irritating from time to time.

you can still get items sold as "Goodmans" or "Grundig" ... ?

Does.

Apricot has made this decision to ensure customers have a smooth installation of their operating system"

That sentence hurts my brain. Surely they aren't forcing customers to buy a laptop with a blank hard drive and a Windows CD, and the instructions tell them how to install it. For one thing, Windows is much harder to install than most Linux installer programs are which almost always have a nearly automatic installation choice.

I take it that they meant smoother *use* of the OS? That too I would have to disagree on though, as most Linux bundles come with all the basic software that you need, while with Windows you have to go and download and install it all to get your system to actually be useful, unless they are expecting to use some Windows program on it that won't work through Wine and doesn't have a good replacement.

Sorry but that's just a retarded thing to say. I've never heard of this brand and I think this helps ensure I never will.