Only covers companies that are part of the organisation which illusion isn't.

But you do spout shit - did they get you from the daily mail?

Japan minimal violence, low crime society - normally quite capable of getting through life with a huge array of porn. Some think that the elitist bullshit view held by some leads to a less safe society.

WTF

"The decision follows protests from civil rights campaigners in the US who have been demanding titles like RapePlay be made illegal in Japan. "

So if hardcore muslims get in a stink about woman showing off their legs we should all bow to their pressure - both this is a travesty and you make me sick.

Hey some nations think honour killings are great how about we take on that practive? Others think drinking is a terrible sin how about we have that one too? Female circumsision is pretty popular.

This isn't even a news article it's like some twisted small minded self rightous bs editorial of some worthless elitist that thinks his petty opinions are more important then law and should have hold over a nation that is infinetly nicer then the shit holes that are the US and UK.

I'm not condoning these rape games, but I do find it interesting that society deems killing games acceptable.

normal or not particularly abnormal in Japan?

And don't the Japanese have a lower rate of sexual assaults / murder / etc than the more-repressed "west"?

If the Japanese have a lower rate of these things (Which I believe to be the case... anyone got numbers?) then why the hell are they letting us tell them what to do?

As sensible as this decision is, lets hope they know where to stop. Its all to easy to foresee a "creep" of censorship.

I'd like to find where there is any evidence that your opinion is a supportable position or are you just trundelling along with a "common sense" narrative?

Just like all "common sense" opinions that say "porn increases rape" "violent sex porn increases violent sex offenses" "lolicon makes peadophiles" they have less supporting evidence then evidence that the earth is flat.

"Depraved players?" Not exactly reporting of neutral tone, is it?

Naturally, being a game collector and a collector of banned things, this is now on my shopping list.

i thought you were being tongue in cheek for a bit but ultimately i do not think you were, this was a most disappointing stance for the reg to be taking.

will you in future be referrign to GTA as a "so called game" as it promotes actions that are far outside social norms?

and just in case anyone thinks i am condoning rape, i am not, nor do i condone murder, they are both terrible things, but we are talking about games here, not real life, i do hope you can not only tell the difference, but stop and think about it for a second in future.

If these games are banned, I'll just have to go do it for real.

Well, not me, but that's one way of looking at it. Another way is one culture forcing their values on another.

Nothing stopping the download of already released titles either.

This move is utterly pointless, a win for no one, and it won't change anything. As usual!

"The decision follows protests from civil rights campaigners in the US who have been demanding titles like RapePlay be made illegal in Japan. "

As strange as these games are, they don't hurt anyone, so what right do US citizens (or the US in general) have to demand change in any country that has no effect on them? Attempting to force morals on other countries is how wars start.

Japan Crime

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ja-japan/cri-crime

Japan population

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ja-japan/peo-people

Population = 127,288,416

Rapes = 2,357

UK Crime

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/uk-united-kingdom/cri-crime

UK Population

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/uk-united-kingdom/peo-people

Population = 60,943,912

Rapes = 13,395

It sure is about time this happened. After all, that's sick.

Pass me the PS2 controller, I have to go beat a whore to death.

There are 5 pieces of "Mailism" in this article and one complete fabrication... disappointing from a site I hold so much respect for.

Seriously, if you're going to use copypasta on this site, at least take it from somewhere other than a Shock Tabloid...

...what about healthy ones, then?

Seriously, let's have a moratorium on the overuse of adjectives the sole purpose of which is to demonstrate the writer's steadfast membership of the "wholesome and caring people" demography.

Or could it be that it was all meant to be read in a sarcastic way, as I would not consider rape games a major problem calling for social control. But then again, we are now in an epoch where cartoons can be classified as "child pornography", so maybe I'm just a bit old-fashioned.

Paris, because "WTF?"

I'm seeing several comments to the effect of "Japan has a markedly lower rate of violent crimes than the West - why would they change policies that are observably effective?". That's refreshing. It's nice to see that there are people who would prefer legislation to be based on actual facts, rather than ideology-driven flights of fancy like "doing something in a game leads to doing it for real". It's a shame to see that there are no such people in charge, though.

... all the loli tentacle rape cartoons and comics that are made in Japan will still be on sale, business as usual... or at least until someone spots it for sale on Amazon.com.

"RapeLay developer Illusion maintains its twisted offering is legal under Japanese law."

Much like the MPs and their "I was within the rules!" claims, it may be legal so, but should it be allowed morally? I don't know. Legality can only go so far before a wider more gray area comes into the discussion.

"civil rights campaigners in the US who have been demanding titles like RapePlay be made illegal in Japan"

Excuse me, but what the f*ck does it have to do with them? If the Japanese have a problem with a product produced in Japan for the Japanese market, then it's up to them to deal with it.

What makes campaigners in the US think they have the right to impose their will on another country with a completely different culture? They should stick to sorting out their own twisted society (I avoid using the word culture in regard to America).

How would they like an Arab nation demanding the USA ban alcohol?

Have they not wondered why the world seems to be full of "extremists" who hate the US?

Land of the free.... Hahaha! Keep kidding yourselves guys.

I guess there's times when killing is morally justifiable (shooting demons, nazis, aliens etc like in the early days) where as rape is never justified. People campaign for games like thrill kill and manhunt to be banned since they cross some imaginary and very blurry line into unjustifiable killing. The line between a dating game and a rape sim are pretty clear.

Yes, indeed- how sickening and small minded to regard rape and torture as unacceptable; we shouldn't be so judgemental about other cultures. We should just embrace such ideas as cultural differences- hey maybe we could have a fun cultural exchange event where the sick fucks (sorry, 'those with different cuitural viewpoints') can demonstrate their traditions.

Sarcasm aside, the very point of such classification boards is to evaluate the extent to which a work conforms to societal standards, not determine those standards. You will note that the board's assessment has no legal status, so it would seem your criticisms of their 'censorship' seem in reality to be a call to limit their freedom to express their viewpoint on the matter. That retailers hold their viewpoint in high regard should surely not limit their rights to freedom of expression.

"Civil Rights" campaigners lobbied to have the rights of people in another country to produce types of video game removed? It's no wonder the US is hated the world over if this is the kind of bullshit they export.

"God" forbid another culture (with a lower crime rate?) should view things at all differently!

I really wish these puritanical fucks would stay out of everyone else's business. Just because they have to rape after seeing porn or playing one of these games doesn't mean the rest of us are that moronic.

Dear Tony,

Unlike the readership of the Daily Mail, we, your humble readers, do not need to be told that rape is "depraved", "sick" or "twisted" -- we are intelligent enough to know this for ourselves.

Please stick to reporting the facts and desist from trying to tell us what to think or feel.

Yours,

A. Reader.

firstly, i would like to state that i am not for censorship but i am also not for degradation of any human being, male or female.

secondly, ian makes a valid point in some respects, however i don't think the issue in this context is one of violence in and of itself, but of the relationship of violence to sex. to generalise, violence is an impersonal, brutal, essentially male characteristic. to generalise once again, sex (usually) involves two partners of opposite gender participating in a mutually respectful and loving act. it would seem to me that the truly shocking thing about rape is the combination of these two fundamentally incongruent behaviours: violence is (generally speaking) in diametric opposition to (normal, loving) sex and vice versa. it is this inherent symbolic incompatibility that causes our revulsion. the same could be said to be true of paedophilia: two diametrically opposed ideas, when mixed together, have the ability to deeply offend our moral sensibilities and beliefs of what is 'normal' and therefore, acceptable. the meaning individuals may ascribe to these symbols and their subsequent compatibility may depend entirely on the culture in which the individual exists.

an excellent example has been made above regarding the public display of females' legs in many islamic societies aroudnt he world, today: compare the 'outmoded' islamic fashion for women wearing the hijab/niqab with victorian britains's attitude to public displays of any female flesh. so severe were the victorians, that only 100 years ago people were covering the legs of their own dining tables with lace doilies, lest men get excited by pieces of carved wood. these both seem unthinkable to us now but fashion, culture and morality are merely different faces of the same coin - we should not be so ready to judge others by our own fleeting standards.

although deep down humans may share an innate sense of 'good', one must remember that what seems culturally abhorrent to one group may not be seen to be so to another and for a group from outside one culture to preach tolerance on one hand, whilst attempting to enforce conformism with the other should make us wary of such peoples' motives. this should be especially true when the subject matter is nothing more than a product of the imagination. yes, this sort of material may well attract a certain type of person. but if the question is "is it wrong to pretend to sexually assault a person who exists only in the imagination?", i would submit that the culture posing the question should look at itself very deeply first, before passing judgement on the other, particularly when those under review belong to a culture not only much older, but also very different from their own.

thirdly, it is interesting that those comments above with names supplied are made exclusively by males. a female point of view would provide excellent balance.

I see your point - maybe it is because we perceive rape as more likely than killing, so it is less remote from us? Feels to close for comfort?

Personally, it does make me feel a bit uneasy that there are people who enjoy such games, but if I can play killing games without a qualm as I do not perceive these games as more than a sophisticated form of "cowboys and indians" I suppose I have to accord the same common sense to others. Games are not real life, after all.

Humans aren't too logical creatures, I'm afraid. Forcing out own views - preferably those generated by fear - ob other people seems to be typical of us. It's the us-vs-them part of our basic sociologial programming.

When crime rates in Japan respond to this ruling it could provide a lot of ammunition to anti-censor lobbies.

Damn i still cant get the training completed, still stuck on the train...this a good thing or bad thing?

Overall its just a game, you think people randomly go outside hide in trash cans and wait for someone to come by and start attacking them?

Of course not, games are games they are not Real Life! Also if you make a big deal out of something thats supposed to be illegal then obviosuly people will try it out like PirateBay for example, when that was on the news everywhere alot of people tried it out and i bet will continue to use its services, afterall not ALL torrents are illegal :)

Tonight im going to hijack a car do a few drive-bys and rob a few stores....on GTA silly.

'part of a plan to control content that "deviates extremely from social norms"'

An unpleasant truth eradicated by a dangerous precedent. Which group of social deviants will be next and where will it stop?

I'd only ever heard of these games via SomethingAwful's hilarious reviews. The games seem pretty terrible by any standards of gameplay, graphics, etc.

Shouldn't US civil rights campaigners focus on, er, rights being abused or denied?

Not sure how the availability of a video game is any kind of priority given the awful abuses of rights which happen to real, flesh and blood people in less civilized regions of the world (including the US - nice work on Proposition 8, California...)

"In most games involving killing, you're up against equally armed opponents motivated to kill you."

Like GTA? ANd only becouse there is no market for it at the moment.

Having games full of death and destruction is fine just as long as you can create an enemy of someone apparently.

Also often in FPS the opponents may be equally armed, but they are vastly easier to mow down creating a sense of omnipotence and molding young minds into believing that a: it's easy to kill others just as long as you can come up with a reason to do it and b: it's hard to die as long as you don't run out into the open.

Simply becouse you find it distasteful doesn't give you any right to dictate its existance, especially if you come from a nation with disproportianatly high crime, where it is quite likely that the polices you support lead to an increase in criminality of the population.

Go take you petty moralising to Africa where they still practice female circumsion.

Careful of these. It is known that there is massive under-reporting of rape and sex crimes in general in Japan, for societal reasons. The real extent of rape there is simply not known.

I cannot believe this. (a) This is not a hardware article nor review of hardware equipment/device. This is a purely social and policital-economic article. Why it is in Reg Hardware? (b) This may be construed as a rant; please accept it with the satire and venom with which it was intended. :)

"civil right campaigners", "women's groups", "protest campaigns"... Who are these organizations that can influence overseas companies more profoundly than national governments? A series of searches finds this story everywhere in gaming culture sites, but it all seems to just echo back and forth with no new information about who these powerful groups are that finally laid down the hammer.

If you feel that this is *in any way* justified, then you must stop complaining about:

1. The Iraq war. US and UK involvement are making the difference between terror in the streets and the quiet peace they enjoy today. Without Bush/Blair, Iraq would be a lawless land of bloodshed and paramilitary conflict. Oh, wait...

2. Afghanistan "religious fanatics". The Taliban's kind influence on the country was completely justified as it brought true moral uprightness to the land; after all, they ensured GTA was banned there, right?

3. Iran "censorship" and "social injustice". A government must ensure that everyone is morally upright and that unworthy elements are against the law and properly imprisioned, no?

4. Chinese "invasion" and "censorship". Obviously, Nepal and Tibet need to have the strong support of their largest neighbor. Chinese morals are so much better because their economy is better, right?

@ Tom: As for games that allow you to hunt and kill people... How about www.rgamex.com/, www.nongol.com/, www.666gamer.com/ , www.freegames14.com/tag/Killing/1.html, www.killing-games.com/, killing.games14.net/, games-n-games.com/killing.html...

And, since the game being discussed does not seem to utilize guns, how about killing games that involve cars, plane, trains, boats... Or against "most games involving killing, you're up against equally armed opponents motivated to kill you", such as games that encourage you to go "safari" and kill endangered species (Calabera, etc). "I am glad I shot that gazelle from 1/2 mile away - it would have never run away from my loud Defender 150 and surely would have eaten my heart for sure!"

THE POINT: Cultures are different. "Sexual torture" (female circumcisions, prisioner castration, BDSM, etc) and other content that "deviates extremely from social norms" cannot be applied from one society to another - One culture's gratutitous violence that trains children to be sexually deviant psychopaths is another culture's "The Ring."

Got any stats on the amount of unreported rapes? The attitude towards rape in Japan is fairly much the same as the average sun reader has over here, victims are treated as the guilty ones and the vast majority of rape cases no matter how brutal simply aren’t reported in the media. Its amazingly ignorant to produce a set of stats and claim rape isn’t a big problem in Japan, even the smallest amount of research (ie using Google) tells a completely different story, and not just from people wanting rape games banned

and anon

Well yes infact I do -

The ICVS (International Crime Victims Survey) places Japan again close to the bottom of the list for serious sexual assaults. This survey takes anonymous surveys of the population and is an excellent secondary source of data when combined with the police statistics.

It's pretty ignorant to just take a few misc words from google, and believe that it is fact.

The crime victimisation rate in Japan is < 13% compared to the England 22.5% > 24.9%

According to this http://kotaku.com/5275409/rape-games-officially-banned-in-japan

The pertinent line is

What kind of changes can we expect? Ero game maker Syrup Soft is delaying its upcoming game Gang raped by the entire village ~girls covered in milky liquid~ to re-moniker it The trap set by the entire village ~bodies covered in milky liquid~. So, yeah, expect more creative ways of masking rape and rape iconography as well as possibly more "amateur" or unlicensed games. Then there's always the rape pornography and rape comic books that will most likely continue, business as usual.

With all the same content just no wRape mentioned in the title.

So no change there then

The ICVS makes interesting, and there is in the UK a general downward trend in crime in the UK

http://www.unicri.it/wwd/analysis/icvs/statistics.php

I just went through the appendix a

% victimised once or more in the preceding year - Sexual offences

UK

1989 1.1

1992 2.1

2000 2.7

Japan

1989 1.0

1992 1.8

2000 1.2

Victims in year preceding: number of offences per 100 inhabitance - Sexual offences

UK

1989 1.2

2000 6.1

Japan

1989 2.3

2000 3.1

Details on sub-crimes

Sexual incidents (woman only)

UK doesn't have a 2000 result

Japan

Sexual Assault 0.1%

Offensive sexual behaviour 1.1%

Profile of offences % of all incidents

UK

2000

Sexual offences 5%

Japan

2000

Sexual offences 7%

However here note that 1) UK reported survey returned 1,136 incidents of crime in the survey and has a large number of car theft (reduced considerably since 1992 though) Theft from car robbery and assaults in comparision to Japan. Japan having between 0 and 10% uk having between 10% and 23%.

No not reporting sexual incidents, common assaults or threats

UK 283 didn't report

Japan 67 didn't report

% crime reported to police Sexual incidents

UK 14%

Japan 11%

"a female point of view would provide excellent balance."

You are aware this is a news website for IT geeks? QED.

Rape is most definitely worse than murder. When you talk about rape you have to realise you are talking about torture not sex. Most people accept that being tortured is a fate worse than death.

Rape is a brutal crime of anger, it's purpose is to demean and subjugate the victim to the control of the attacker. Rapists get their pleasure from the pain and degradation they cause. If there was ever a reason to ban a game, rape would be right up there with child molestation and torture.

Killing might be reprehensible, but with most games your reasons for killing the enemy are tied with what society accepts as morally acceptable - usually some sort of good vs evil scenario.

When games deviate from that you'll notice there's a lot more fuss made about them. GTA, Manhunt, etc are examples of what happens when the game moves away from freeing Europe from the Nazis or defending planet Xarggh from the evil Spectrofrozzles.

.... well in Tony Smith's opinion, anyway.

And that's all it is. OPINION.

In my opinion I think El Reg should ban Tony Smith because I don't like what he writes...

(Well, actually I don't, but, come on, El Reg, let's try to keep things balanced rather than just letting one of your writers go off on a rant)

Don't forget to visit your local bookseller and stock up on all the current banned books. That way you'll have a nice collection of good literature in no time and plenty of material when 451 day comes.

Last time I checked you cant re cover from death but you can recover from rape. To perpetrate the Idea that rape is worse than death does nothing to help rape victims , in fact it makes it worse . That puts them in a mind state that is likely to led to suicidal thoughts . Yes I do know rape victims .

Pretty much every StarWars game, Aliens vs Predator, Warcraft games, Starcraft, these are games where it is ACTIVELY ENCOURAGED to murder people with nothing to do with it. It's a valid tactic in Thief 1-3 (although 1 and 2 won't let you on the hardest difficulty), Deus Ex: Invisible War has a dialog option to take revenge on an innocent third party, as well as allowing you to kill absolutely anyone for no reason. GTA games you can get money for it, just make sure there are no cops around and only 2-3 a minute.

I was discussing American wrestling recently, most specifically the novelty ones where women beat each other up and the first one to strip the other to her underwear wins. I observed that only in the states is it more acceptable to get turned on by a woman being kicked in the head than one being actually naked.

You can find them on youtube, they're called "bra and panty matches" but be aware they're probably illegal to view over here.

"Rape is most definitely worse than murder."

So presumably, if you asked a bunch of rape survivors whether they would rather have been murdered, all of them would say yes, right? I rather doubt that. But more to the point, if you asked a bunch of AIs the same question, I think you would find they have no preference.

So man hunt it the only game that innocent people die in ?

Everyone liked to defend Grand theft auto when it gets accused of making people commit crime. Now that's a game where lots on innocent (what ever that meens) people die in hell you can kill people in a game like the Sims.Committing a crime is a crime to play a crime is not. As long as people can´t see the difference we are doomed as a race.

I'm sure the feminist group that raised the fuss about the game being sold at Amazon is glad that the potential audience to rape sims is spending more time *outside*, instead of locked in their rooms playing...

The problem is that people that support these kinds of measures are under the delusion that certain fantasies lead to real world results.

They do this whilst blindly denying that other kinds of fantasies do not lead to results.

e.g. supporters of this move believe rape games make people rape (if they don't believe this then what is the problem?)

However at the same time a large number do not believe that violent games where you kill people lead people to want to kill people (whether that's by murdering people on the street or joining the army to murder them for some political ideal)

end of examples.

This "interesting" belief is no different to the extreme porn law foundings, that have less than zero evidence (any evidence in support is easily disclaimed - the only support coming from common sense narrative and prisoner survey) whilst the evidence against is convincing.) Or the notion that strip clubs increased crime (while statistics showed crime decreased in areas of London.) This can be extended to the lolicon debate with zero effort.

This is quite overtly a case of moral outrage against something people view as abhorent, whilst serving no purpose other then to punish the few to inflate a handful of egos.

As to crime rates in Japan all measures (quantative and qualitiative) point to secual offence being far less of a problem in Japan that it is in other modern nations - including my personal experiance of talking to Japanese woman.

Interestingly over the course of today I've decided Japan is an increadibly interesting nation to direct further studies, so once I finish my degree I feel it's a place that has many an interetsting social phenomena to study.

This is absolutely, incredibly chilling. And I'm talking about your rabid, kneejerk, ill-thought-out pro-censorship rant. Neutrality? Thoughtfulness? Evidence of any semiconscious consideration of policy and personal freedom? I wish any single one of those had been present in your screed, but all were absent.

That one single article has, for me, dramatically blackened the Reg's reputation. And the fact that nobody else from your organization stopped that drivel from being posted says very little for your entire staff and editorial policy.

Just to clarify my post on games where you murder innocents.

In Thief innocents include cooks, maids, wives etc who if they see you (in which case you suck and shouldn't be playing Thief but never mind that) will run and either call a guard or sound the alarm. Thief 1 and 2 have expert mode challenges of "Don't kill anyone" but Thief 3 doesn't. In fact, in Thief 2 many players who read a love letter after killing its writer voluntarily chose to avoid killing in future because that is far more potent than any game mechanic preventing you.

In Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, you frequently meet prisoners, receptionists etc who beg you to let them go. Also you often meet people being mugged who stop and thank you if you fight off the muggers. You can kill either group where they stand in order to make Force Lightning cheaper to cast. You also get to condemn a family to a slow starvation by taking all they have of value. The list goes on. If you want to play a caster type character you will be pretty weak on the light side so all these murders and other atrocities are required of you.

Might and Magic 7 includes a mission to murder someone's ex. The mission involves no fighting to get to her since unless you go in invisible you don't have a chance. Rather you infiltrate the town where she lives, cast one high-damage spell on her and teleport out before the guards have time to do anything. She dies quickly since she's non-combatant.

World of Warcraft has a mission where you have to murder farmers and collect their skulls as souveniers (actually the skull collecting is a second mission you can do at the same time, for someone who is depressed that he doesn't get to go out and murder people anymore) - the farmers aren't very tough as long as you keep away from the guards dotted around the place.

Warcraft 3 has a mission where a demon is trying to consume the life energy population of a city. The logical answer to the hero is to kill everyone before he can. Nice. Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne has a mission where you must kill all the refugees from a previous campaign. Women, children, don't let anyone escape.

Star Trek: Birth of the Federation cannot be won without orbital bombardment.

In Max Payne 2 you get treated to a rant about the evils of videogames if you make it through one level without gunning down the two old ladies and the sleeping man. Otherwise you get a rebuke for letting bystanders die instead.

This is just from memory. It occurs to me I never tried to murder Humpty Dumpty in Alice. Anyone know?

Those statistics aren't even viable. Considering how Japan's society differs from UK, I could put my finger in reported crimes higher. Since most Japanese are shy, they are rarely to go about reporting it with the fact that if they had their pictures shown to the public, it could defile there status. It is just how Japan runs these days and age. I say the radiation did it but whose to know? All in all, it is better to have a game where people can take there fetishes out on than on real people. It is NOT good however to have parents buying such games for their children. Knowing how many parents seem to not care for 17+/M games for kids around the age of 13 or having a sibling do the purchasing at that. All in all, if they didn't like it, they already did ban it from Amazon.com. Leave the wierd stuff in Japan, stay in Japan. In the sense that aslong as it was just only being sold in Japan, I don't see the issue here unless there were a horde of hungry raping US perps looking for some new skills oO;;